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Monterey
Player

Outfit
Elysium
Level 30
Mage
4th June 2024 17:23:03 (Last edited 4th June 2024 17:24:40)

An increase in the rear damage of the cleave spell from 25% to 50% seems suitable. More than that would be excessive for such a subclass.
Briareu
Sage

Outfit
Elysium
Level 936
Warrior
4th June 2024 17:34:28

Quoting Mamrot:
Quoting Briareu:
Quoting Mamrot:
PALADIN

-Cleave my dmg in front and sides 1280-1310 thats ok nice for paladins,

-behind me 320 its still not enough to make free paladins from standing against the wall.

-My proposal is to increase behind wave to 75% of the rest waves.

ps teleport scrolls not working

75%??? :smartass: it's balancing, not overpowering ;)

told crying barbarian to not let paladin be a bit stronger :)
check top 50 lvl for example elysium, 7 pala , 25 barbas, do u want to stop existing like dinosaurs? :D

Very well structured arguments ;)

i'v always defended that paladins needed review, but... as i told, its balancing, and 75% is NOT balancing.

i'v tested paladin as a level 900, it is amazing rn. great resistance, ok damage. thats how it should be.
Kiad
Player

Outfit
Pharos
Level 11
Ranger
4th June 2024 17:47:50

The problem currently is at a certain point there is no reason to play paladin over barbarian, as it has more damage and it can tank.

I think Life steal needs nerfing in general, give it the treatment of MR where you can only get a max of 10-15% from gear. Or make it more like Tibias where you get full from 1 target and 10% from every other monster.
Briareu
Sage

Outfit
Elysium
Level 936
Warrior
4th June 2024 17:49:23 (Last edited 4th June 2024 17:51:00)

Quoting Kiad:
The problem currently is at a certain point there is no reason to play paladin over barbarian, as it has more damage and it can tank.

I think Life steal needs nerfing in general, give it the treatment of MR where you can only get a max of 10-15% from gear. Or make it more like Tibias where you get full from 1 target and 10% from every other monster.

paladin abuses lifesteal better than barbarian now, trust me, iv tested live.
we need stronger creatures, we cannot compare a level 900 of any subclass to olds monsters.

wanna talk smth op? warlock still with 2 buffs, flat resistance and extra lifesteal.
Fuzzy
Player

Outfit
Elysium
Level 10
Warrior
4th June 2024 18:03:43 (Last edited 4th June 2024 18:04:48)

Quoting Briareu:

paladin abuses lifesteal better than barbarian now, trust me, iv tested live.
we need stronger creatures, we cannot compare a level 900 of any subclass to olds monsters.

wanna talk smth op? warlock still with 2 buffs, flat resistance and extra lifesteal.


That's what I think too...

For this same reason, I proposed a change to the buffs of all subclasses, aiming to rebalance the exaggerated defenses that some have mainly after the realease of new enchantments (+mr, +hp steal, +physical), so they need to focus only on damage or defense, to not be op.

Here is my proposal >

Quoting Fuzzy:
Considering the release of dynamic-enchantment system some subclasses became very tanky also dealing a great damage instead of having only one role in game, due to enchantments of 30% extra maximum magic resistance counting all equipments fully enchanted, furthermore new extra max 15% hp steal, 20% new maximum dodge and 30% max physical resistance given by enchantments.

So some adjustments could be made to rebalance the subclass buffs. Focusing on establishing only one good performance for each subclass, whether in having high damage, high defense or even being average between damage and defense.

A first step would be to change the buffs to favor the focus of each subclass, keeping in mind this:

high damage = low defense
medium damage = medium defense
low damage = high defense

Suggestions to rework on buffs :


Warlocks - reduce their defense improving spell damage and hp steal which is the essence of this subclass.

Dark Gathering - Increase its hp steal from 10% to 20% and Add 20% of magic level bonus to this buff.

Remove Absorbing Aura spell - 24% of negation of damage - from the game.

- Restore to 50% the damage of Cross of Annihilation’s second wave.


Pyromancers - place mana shield as their main buff defense, they should be by far the most fragile subclass to play and improve AoE damage, focus of this subclass.

Fire Shield - Increase its Mana Shield from 12% to 25% and Add to the buff 10% of extra damage for Inferno, Meteor Shower and Fire Rain.

Remove the 16% of negation of damage from Fire Shield.

- Restore base hp steal of subclass to 100% again.


Shamans - they're a supporter subclass, so their buff is already well balanced.

Fortitude Growth - No changes. 35% max hp bonus and 10% of negation of damage.


Rogues - subclass focused on PvP, so they need a few improvements.

Belligerent Focus - Keep the ricochets , Increase negation of damage from 4% to 8% and Add attack speed by 25%.

Remove distance skill bonus from Belligerent Focus.


Marksmen - they're focused on PvE and critical hits, some changes can fully provide that.

Offensive Imminence - Keep the ricochets also Improve their distance skill bonus to 20% and Add critical hit chance by 15%.


* Ps.: Reduce ranger class hp per level from 15 to 10. *


Barbarians - full aggresive subclass, but their defense needs to be low considering hp steal because its not their focus.

Frenzy - Improve melee skill bonus from 10% to 20% and Reduce from 15% to 10% the mana cost reduction for spells.

Remove 3% of hp steal from Frenzy.


Paladins - best defensive subclass, so they should have the major % of negation of damage considering all subclasses.

Fortification - Keep 10% max hp bonus and Increase negation of damage from 10% to 20%.
Kiad
Player

Outfit
Pharos
Level 11
Ranger
4th June 2024 18:21:03 (Last edited 4th June 2024 18:21:52)

Quoting Fuzzy:
Quoting Briareu:

paladin abuses lifesteal better than barbarian now, trust me, iv tested live.
we need stronger creatures, we cannot compare a level 900 of any subclass to olds monsters.

wanna talk smth op? warlock still with 2 buffs, flat resistance and extra lifesteal.


That's what I think too...

For this same reason, I proposed a change to the buffs of all subclasses, aiming to rebalance the exaggerated defenses that some have mainly after the realease of new enchantments (+mr, +hp steal, +physical), so they need to focus only on damage or defense, to not be op.

Here is my proposal >

Quoting Fuzzy:
Considering the release of dynamic-enchantment system some subclasses became very tanky also dealing a great damage instead of having only one role in game, due to enchantments of 30% extra maximum magic resistance counting all equipments fully enchanted, furthermore new extra max 15% hp steal, 20% new maximum dodge and 30% max physical resistance given by enchantments.

So some adjustments could be made to rebalance the subclass buffs. Focusing on establishing only one good performance for each subclass, whether in having high damage, high defense or even being average between damage and defense.

A first step would be to change the buffs to favor the focus of each subclass, keeping in mind this:

high damage = low defense
medium damage = medium defense
low damage = high defense

Suggestions to rework on buffs :


Warlocks - reduce their defense improving spell damage and hp steal which is the essence of this subclass.

Dark Gathering - Increase its hp steal from 10% to 20% and Add 20% of magic level bonus to this buff.

Remove Absorbing Aura spell - 24% of negation of damage - from the game.

- Restore to 50% the damage of Cross of Annihilation’s second wave.


Pyromancers - place mana shield as their main buff defense, they should be by far the most fragile subclass to play and improve AoE damage, focus of this subclass.

Fire Shield - Increase its Mana Shield from 12% to 25% and Add to the buff 10% of extra damage for Inferno, Meteor Shower and Fire Rain.

Remove the 16% of negation of damage from Fire Shield.

- Restore base hp steal of subclass to 100% again.


Shamans - they're a supporter subclass, so their buff is already well balanced.

Fortitude Growth - No changes. 35% max hp bonus and 10% of negation of damage.


Rogues - subclass focused on PvP, so they need a few improvements.

Belligerent Focus - Keep the ricochets , Increase negation of damage from 4% to 8% and Add attack speed by 25%.

Remove distance skill bonus from Belligerent Focus.


Marksmen - they're focused on PvE and critical hits, some changes can fully provide that.

Offensive Imminence - Keep the ricochets also Improve their distance skill bonus to 20% and Add critical hit chance by 15%.


* Ps.: Reduce ranger class hp per level from 15 to 10. *


Barbarians - full aggresive subclass, but their defense needs to be low considering hp steal because its not their focus.

Frenzy - Improve melee skill bonus from 10% to 20% and Reduce from 15% to 10% the mana cost reduction for spells.

Remove 3% of hp steal from Frenzy.


Paladins - best defensive subclass, so they should have the major % of negation of damage considering all subclasses.

Fortification - Keep 10% max hp bonus and Increase negation of damage from 10% to 20%.


I think that would make mages back to single target as they wouldn't be able to tank much at all. This would push Paladin/Barbarian way too far ahead of the others. Check it out on the test server just run in with no buff.
If that was the case then Paladin and Barbarians damage would need to be nerfed a lot in the scheme of high defence low damage.

Barbarian is crazy OP from around 300.


Quoting Briareu:
Quoting Kiad:
The problem currently is at a certain point there is no reason to play paladin over barbarian, as it has more damage and it can tank.

I think Life steal needs nerfing in general, give it the treatment of MR where you can only get a max of 10-15% from gear. Or make it more like Tibias where you get full from 1 target and 10% from every other monster.

paladin abuses lifesteal better than barbarian now, trust me, iv tested live.
we need stronger creatures, we cannot compare a level 900 of any subclass to olds monsters.

wanna talk smth op? warlock still with 2 buffs, flat resistance and extra lifesteal.


I would say level 500 barbarians are crazy OP nevermind 900's
Disturbed Maverick
Player

Outfit
Elysium
Level 209
Warrior
4th June 2024 18:33:18

Why do warlocks have a 24% damage negation - and HP steal buff - when paladins only have 8%/10%, considering they should be the best defensive subclass? Even pyromancers, possessors of the widest combination of AoE damage spells, have more damage negation (16%) than paladins, and this makes no sense.

Warlocks and pyromancers are supposed to inflict the highest AoE damage, together with barbarians. However, this benefit should come at the cost of their defense, either by receiving higher damage to their HP (warlocks and barbarians) or by using a great amount of mana to survive (pyromancers).

One option would be to remove the dark gathering/HP steal of warlocks and the mana shield of pyromancers' fire shield leaving only damage reduction. In the case of barbarians, removing the HP steal of frenzy.
Briareu
Sage

Outfit
Elysium
Level 936
Warrior
4th June 2024 20:07:51 (Last edited 4th June 2024 20:08:27)

To Kiad, we gotta get in mind that all creatures ingame rn are weak comprared to any level 500, specially with those new equipments.

to compare;
a level 500 barb with full set cannot tank/kill a box of templars.
a level 500 paladin can deal with it.

barbarians at that level are "op" to old creatures (thats why LS is meta), game is made for level 300 rn. 500 is too much.

i did things live stream with my acc turnt as paladin that i cannot do with barbarian.

/\ check my vods https://www.twitch.tv/mcallax


we can only discuss real balancing after the release of new and stronger creatures. lets be patient.
Askja
Premium

Outfit
Elysium
Level 855
Warrior
4th June 2024 21:04:24 (Last edited 4th June 2024 21:08:51)

Quoting Briareu:

to compare;
a level 500 barb with full set cannot tank/kill a box of templars.
a level 500 paladin can deal with it.


Certainly, but ..

I do less exp in templars as pala level 740 (even with those "balances", which are way to timorous) than a lvl 500 barb at yahgan barbarians (edit : I begin to see the point where I will have soon same exp xd). Nobody seems to understand how sick it is (and I loose money at templars while at yahgan the same barb while make huge profit).

And obviously once lvl 600, the same barb will obtain far more exp than me at templars.

This shows, as many said, as far as exp/h is concerned, there is no point in being able to tank everything if decent damage doesn't follow.
Ragnarok Black
Player

Outfit
Pharos
Level 99
Ranger
4th June 2024 23:37:24

Let's eliminate the life steal for paladin, barb, pyro and warlock and give those life steal advantages to the shaman and let the shaman's buff give 50% hp again as before but with its 10% attack denial intact At least this way you can defend yourself in a solitary hunt
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